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Christopher Gonzalez
Christopher Gonzalez

Can You Still Buy R12


Anyone with the required EPA R-12 certification still can buy the 1-pound cans at auto-parts stores, but the cans are kept in the back and guarded like gold. This week, one popular local auto-parts chain was selling the cans for $14.99 each - the same cans we could buy off the shelf in 1992 for 99 cents.




can you still buy r12


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Other compounds are touted as replacements for Freon R12 refrigerant. But the industry generally favors the R134a replacement. Conduct your own research to remove doubts about the legality (and eco-friendliness) of any substitute other than R134a. Unfortunately, converting an air conditioning system to use R-1234yf refrigerant is expensive. R134a is still available so the transition is likely to take place over years.


The absence of CFCs in R134a makes it a lot different from R12 in comparison. Due to the fact that R134a is a hydrofluorocarbon (HFC), it does not harm the ozone layer. HFCs still act as greenhouse gases and promote climate change.


The R12 is the codename for the refrigerant that has been around since the 1920s and widely used since the 1950s in home appliances and vehicles. It was phased out in home appliances in favor of R22, but R12 still remained the primary vehicle air conditioning refrigerant.


milofarmer1 - 3/15/2013 19:59 Before I pulled a vacuum and tried to charge it I would get compressed air and put 100 psi in it. Soap all the fittings and listen for a leak on the compressor seal with a little rubber hose to your ear. Low tech way I find leaks before throwing a bunch of money away trying to charge a system. Leave it sit a couple days if you have the time then see if it still has pressure. Any massive leaks it won't hold air very long. Oh, I'd just go ahead and put in 134A. You can buy a 30# drum for $150? or so.Brandon, what kind of fitting do you use to put compressed air in? Good idea to see where you are at in the system before you put some money into it. Thanks.


R-12 automotive Freon.Is it still legal to use R-12?Is it legal to own R-12? (Say purchased before the enactment of any laws banning)Is it legal to transport R-12? (to an authorized repair facility)


Yes, it still is perfectly legal to use R-12 in the United States. It's illegal to vent or improperly dispose of it, however.Yes, it is perfectly legal to own R-12. If you should decide to sell it, however, the purchaser must have EPA 609 certification. You should keep a copy of same to cover yourself if you sell it in case you're investigated or raided by EPA Gestappos. Transportation is the only difficult issue. While I doubt a few cans or a drum of Freon would be an issue, some municipalities consider it hazmat, and therefore only a company authorized to transport hazmat material can legally be used to transport it. Contaminated refrigerant would probabably be an even greater biggie. Also, since R-12 is under pressure, special authorized transportation might be required. Here in NYC for example, I wouldn't even think of attempting to transport any refrigerant over any major bridge or tunnel.Amazing all the BS over a virtually harmless chemical, eh?Joe


Topic moved by me, as it serves no purpose in the repair/question forum, but can still be viewed and added to here. -------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose


The EPA is not exactly like other government agencies like our state IRS for example that sends me a bulletin every month with changes to the WI state sales tax laws or the federal IRS that sends me a thick book every year with updated tax laws. Matter of fact, you have to dig hard to find the current EPA laws, practically all of my bookmarks of even three years ago are obsolete as they keep on changing their site addresses. Also the EPA depends on 3rd parties for certification that make their own rules or stretch the rules originally made by the EPA.To the best of my knowledge, more recently, the EPA has backed away from suggested conversions of originally R-12 equipped vehicles because of problems and has been promoting the proper recovery of R-12 to be reused for these vehicles. It is still legal to top off a leaky R-12 system in the USA, whereas in our neighbors to the north, the system must be converted to R-134a that is the same in most European countries.It's illegal to vent any MVAC refrigerant in the USA including even HC's to the best of my knowledge are illegal for any vehicle use. This also includes environmentally safe R-134a. Also to the best of my knowledge, the EPA has no control over the manufacturers of mobile AC equipment with no set standards as to what is considered maximum leakage. The EPA has never told GM to fix and recall all their leaky compressor seals nor Ford about their O ring quick couplers that are well known leakers. So apparently its okay for these systems to leak out their refrigerant, but not okay for a tech or an individual to manually release them and that includes the last gram in the system that didn't leak out yet. But if a known leaker only has one gram left, still okay to top it off. The EPA does acknowledge that a typical passenger vehicle will lose about 10% of its charge each year, I am experiencing this and about 50% of its charge in commercial vehicles, but is not making any regulations for the OE's to improve this, they strictly target the techs for venting if this makes any sense. But okay yet to top it off, we are not expected to improve the system, but perhaps that will change. Unlike asbestos where manufacturers were forced to recall asbestos related products such as hair dryers where a spec of asbestos could be blown up your nose.Sham or so-called sham retrofits is based on a regulation where it was legal to replace an originally R-134a equipped vehicle with HC's but not an originally equipped R-12 vehicle. Those that claimed to convert an originally R-12 vehicle to R-134a, then to HC's were hit with huge fines. But this contradicts another regulation where HC's are illegal for automotive use period.Does this clear all this up? Government agencies were set up where supposingly experts would be hired to advise our elected officials to deal with highly complex problems, but they put in other government officials in charge like that lady governor that doesn't know crap about chemistry nor the environment. Most of the EPA agents I met had degrees in political science and didn't know the difference between H2O or H2SO4. Not even congress is aware of the regulations these agencies are making. Bottom line is it is all political and one hell of a big mess.


Well, like I said, you have to dig hard to find any information about the EPA regulations and if you do, you will be threatened, this is getting a bit old even when buying a computer program or slapping a rented DVD in your player. The FBI is going to investigate even if you attempt to copy portions of the audio track with up to five years in prison and a $250,000.00 fine. I rent a DVD to hopefully enjoy a movie, not to be threatened, and not a darn thing you can do about it, can't fast forward, skip to the menu or anything. One thing that does work is to load and play the DVD while you are watching something else, even for an hour, then hit the menu buttons, scenes, and click on the first scene. Then you can enjoy the movie without being threatened.Buy any product today and the first 3-5 pages are threatening so-called safety information, least you can tear those pages out and burn them, we live in a world of threats, not only from terrorists, but from any corporation and in particular, our government.Ha, after some odd 43 years, got a letter from the VA saying I am eligible for all benefits, thought my records were burnt by the government, but was encouraged to fill out the form with the usual threat right on top of the signature line. I couldn't lie if I wanted to as every facet of the form required me to bring in documentation to prove it and they made copies of everything I brought in, but nevertheless, the threat was still there on the form. This is getting old. My only reason for applying was to work around this stupid Medicare subpart D just in case I would ever need medication. They were pretty nice after I proved myself.If you really want to know how good the EPA is, hit them with a serious pollution problem that is killing your kids. A bunch of worthless bastards in my opinion and I am not afraid to tell them that to their face. Freedom in this country is only a word.


In short, the familiar form factor of the R10 (slim bucket on a pole) is still there, but in the seven years since it was introduced it has taken two significant evolutionary steps: hardware, then software. A lot has changed in those seven years, especially with the near-completion of new constellations, bringing new possibilities for integrating many signals into GNSS solutions.


Hi Rishin,How to connect to the DB on a Mac machine? Could you let me know please? and would we still need to setup a putty equivalent session on a Mac to connect to the DB as from what I understand the putty session is for connecting to the app tier.Thanks


R12 was easily produced and a very effective refrigerant, however, it was later discovered that R12 was an ozone-depleting gas and its production and use became very limited and controlled. This caused the price to skyrocket and companies to find another refrigerant suitable for use in cars and trucks. R134a became the refrigerant of choice after 1995 and still is used in almost every production automobile today.


To convert R12 to R134a in your system there are only a few small changes you need to make to the system. The compressor that is used in your older R12 system luckily will still work R134a refrigerant and still be just as efficient. The condenser and evaporator are simply heat exchangers so they also do not need to be changed to run a different refrigerant. One component that does need to be changed is the dryer. The dryer is in between your condenser and evaporator and helps make sure all the refrigerant has condensed into a liquid. R134a requires a different size dryer to make sure it functions properly so you will need to install a new dryer to convert R12 to R134a. 041b061a72


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